Tuesday, May 01, 2007

Master's in English? Um, better not mention it

Barbara Ehrenreich writes about the "scam" of higher education in a provocative column for Huffington Post. I'm not a big fan of Ehrenreich's, mostly because her book and her play about working class women struck me as being exceedingly condescending. But this time she really got me thinking about just what college degrees are worth anyway these days.

She begins with the recent news about the MIT dean who, it turns out, never earned the three degrees she claimed. She was a popular administrator, beloved by students and colleagues. But after nearly three decades at the university, she finally admitted that she'd fabricated her resume. A cautionary tale, to be sure. But also, says Ehrenreich, proof that someone can succeed at a high level without the high-dollar advanced degrees such jobs supposedly require. In some companies, having certain degrees could hurt your prospects (like that master's in English).

Snack on that and add your thoughts in comments below.

42 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

she could always return her diploma ...

5:42 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Two quick comments:

1) I have really loved your blog for quite some time. I wish you had time to post more because I love your writing, your stories, and your perspective.

2) I'm a 23 year old law student, straight out of undergrad. I'm surrounded by brilliant people, many of whom are older than I. In response to your point about advanced degrees being a potential liability, I thought I'd add a piece of anecdotal evidence: A good friend at law school just finished up his PhD in history at an Ivy League school (we're at a top 10, non-Ivy school right now). He has authored an amazing number of articles for his age, and has even written a book or two. Where does that get him?

The Career Services office told him to leave his post-undergraduate work off his resume.

This is absurd.

9:32 PM  
Blogger Lee said...

One of the myths that seems to float around is that you must have a static resume.

Tailor your resume to the job you are seeking.

I have a Master's in Political Science. I studied statistical anaylsis. I took all of the entry level stat grad courses. When I went looking for a programming job (I've been one for 13 years now). I made sure that my resume highlighted my stat grad work.

On a lark I sent my resume to a Politcal Research firm here in DFW (Political Research Inc). I made sure that my resume focused on the political aspect of my grad work.

If your friend is seeking a teaching position they should highlight their accomplishments. If they are looking for a job as a underwater welder, maybe they should not mention the PhD in history.

9:40 AM  
Anonymous Garnigal said...

Being a recovering English major and in the company of another, she and I were talking about the value or lack thereof in our degrees. She mentioned an Education major atan unknown university posted "drunken pirate pictures" on Facebook and was consequently refused her Education degree on the ground that her behaviour was unprofessional if she wanted to be a teacher.

They gave her an English degree instead.

2:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was once told by a government employee, in a mandatory employment education seminar, to lie on my resume; i.e. to leave off my higher degrees. This was so I could manufacture enough job applications to meet the government's arbitrary requirement and get unemployment support during the summer.

9:45 AM  
Anonymous Jim Mason said...

I have come to think that much of the higher education track from High School up to academia is a scam.

As smart young people we are always pushed along the most academic track. This naturally leads to Masters and PhD's, and for the unfortunately successful among us, academia.

What is waiting at the end of that long trek to the top? A trek where at all times we must be in the top two or ten percent of each increasingly elite group? A salary comparable to that earned by many with only undergraduate degrees and an insanely competitive job market.

This is true more for those in the Liberal Arts than in other areas, but I think it has wide applicability.

When I was in Law School, I could not believe how amazingly stupid the MBA students were at my school (my law school fluctuates between about #12 and #20 in the rankings and the business school has been as high as #5). Talk about empty suits. They also had a much easier and shorter time in school and had an expected first year income of roughly twice ours.

These days I refer my smart young friends to the business department.

12:47 AM  
Blogger David said...

Degrees and certification are usefull for many things, one of which is limiting the pool of competition and increasing the ability to charge higher fees/recieve higher salaries.

Sometimes they are relevant to postion, sometimes they are not. They always exclude good people from doing jobs.

Law included.

8:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I sincerely believed I could be anything I wanted to be, and the way to get that was to pursue higher education. I got my BS in Sociology, followed immediately by an MA in English and Writing. And I'm a little bitter because it's only now, a year after earning my MA that I realized this: you have to know what you want to be in order to be anything. Right now, I'm a secretary, doing a job that I could have easily done without an MA, and probably with a BS. And the job I want will probably require me to get my AA. How weird is that? I wish I'd been told to think about what I wanted to do before just setting off to have an academic experience.

4:40 PM  
Blogger daveawayfromhome said...

I think that the problem lies with the attitude about getting the degree in the first place; too many people in college are after that piece of paper, the education for them is just a series of hoops they have to jump through. Then you have a hiring market that is impressed with that piece of paper, partially because they have no other real way of telling if you can do the job. Finally, as almost anyone will tell you, once you get on the job most of the time you'll find that what you learned in school is, at best, a sketchy groundwork for what you have to learn to do the job you've been given (and, at worst, useless and wrong).

Or, how about the short, pithy version: People today in America are less interested in learning something than they are in appearing educated.

3:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think part of the problem is a huge shift in the job market over the past decade. A decade ago, degrees were more flexible - getting a M.A. in English was more about getting the Master's than specific training, and seemed to open up a lot of doors, and not just be a step toward a Ph.D. So, many of us went for it, though some took longer than others (working in between earning the degree). Now, the degree is either a liability, as many people have already mentioned, in trying to get just basic jobs to pay the bills (and even some better jobs), or it's still only a step on the path to a Ph.D., which also may not lead to gainful employment, seeing as how many universities are not replacing tenured professors with new full-timers, but instead hiring people to do adjunct work or other part-time positions that make less than the average secretary. Resulting in huge student loans to pay off without the income to do so, complicated by a steeply climbing inflation rate for even the basics. So I, like many other English M.A. holders, feel quite bitter and lost at the moment, not to mention BROKE. I resent doing the same sort of work and having the same "peon" status I had when I first started out as a college student, working as a secretary, but I can't get anything better unless I go much further in debt to go back to school for something more specific. And with my M.A., I can't even get a job at the local GROCERY store. A few months AFTER I got my M.A., my advisor told me his wife had to leave hers off her resume to get a job. I wish he would have mentioned that a year EARLIER and spared me the time and money.
I don't think daveawayfromhome is correct about Americans being less interested in learning than they are in appearing educated. I think many Americans want to learn and be educated, but now the rigid restrictions of qualifications for every job, not to mention the catch-22 of needing actual job experience before you can get a job, are frustrating and confusing many of us. Anyway, that's my venting for the afternoon. It's the day before Thanksgiving and I'm depressed - I guess I should be thankful I have my health and all my limbs (knock on wood)...

2:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not working with an MA but I have an MS in an un-related field. I have personally found that having an advanced degree is certianly a liability. I have two undergraduate degrees and one advanced degree and I work in a warehouse. One of the first things that my employer did was send me to a training class to get a forklift liscence. He was skeptical about hiring someone without said liscence.
It seems I can't get anything with my uber-expensive MS. It's basically a $50K piece of paper.
I'm toying with the idea of going back to school. But I just don't know if I can stand the extra debt-espeically when three degrees have yet to pay off.

12:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow! It is comforting to know I'm not the only person with an MA in English who can't find steady work in academia, is overqualified for most jobs outside of academia, and is now incredibly disillusioned with academia. My husband has a great job with awesome benefits, making about 3 times what I make and he has his high school diploma. I, on the other hand, owe 80k for a BA and MA, can't find a full time job, and have no idea where to go from here. Ahhh, the ironies of life. . .

10:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wholeheartedly disagree that an MA in English is unbeneficial.

An MA in English with a concentration in a specific field can be quite rewarding. The same framework applies to other disciplines.

The cost seems to be the main argument against obtaining this degree. If your income wouldn't improve with an MA in your field, then it obviously doesn't make sense to get it.

However, you can take anything away from someone, except their education.

12:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It all seems to depend on the reason for going to grad school. Do you get your MA in English because you want a specific job and are devastated and depressed because the MA can't get you there? Or do you get your MA because you want to know more about books and are young enough and free enough to be able to afford it? It seems like education as a prerequisite for jobs is never a guarantee and should never be understood as one. But, somehow there's this strange illusion that most college students buy into: get degree, get job, get better degree, get better job. Maybe that relationship should be destroyed and instead: get education, get education.

12:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In response to Garnigal's "drunken pirate" post--

The student in question (the "drunken pirate") was in a graduate program offering a masters in English education. Because her drunken pirate actions were deemed unprofessional for an educator (or something along those lines), they wouldn't graduate her with an education degree; however, she had met the requirements for a masters in English. This was at Millersville University of Pennsylvania.

11:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with anonymous at 2:06 p.m. who wrote about the catch-22 of many jobs requiring experience. If you're a recent grad it makes it extrememly difficult to get a job. That happened to me with my accounting degree.

Also, in response to Anonymous posted at 12:52. Colleges advertise that you need a degreee to get a better paying job. They are the ones putting the idea in our heads.
The reality is far different. You can start at the bottom of a company and work your way up. For ex. I've had managers like that; only a H.S. diploma,and I have my Bachelors. Even though they lack many skills, such as business and business law knowledge, they manage to get the better paying job by working their way up.

1:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have an MA in English and have floated around academia for over 10 years now. I have adjuncted for most of those years, and as mentioned previously, that doesn't pay the bills. About two years ago I decided to get certified to teach high school, so I could teach full time. It was easy enough to complete the certification requirements, but I quickly learned that teaching high school was not about TEACHING English, or any other subject. Teaching high school is about babysitting and being responsible for teenagers - responsible to their parents, the school administration and test scores. My student's test scores were great - they went up 10% in the 2 years I taught there. However, I was asked to resign anyway. Why? "It's in the best interest of the district." Which is a way of saying, we just don't like your attitude about arbitrary rules and you are not a great babysitter. I guess I have something in common with the Pirate picture girl - I'm inappropriate. So yes, I am bitter and angry that I owe more money for student loans than it would cost me to buy a house. I am adjuncting again for a fraction of what I was making babysitting teens, so as my first child graduates from high school, I wonder how we will get her through college and if it is worth it to send her at all.

9:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I taught English at the middle school level before returning to college for the M.A. degree in English. I graduated at a low-ebb time for teachers here in California, but I do feel much more qualified to work in other areas such as educational research, literary criticism, free-lance writing...it's a good life, but I am a little behind on my bills...

11:20 AM  
Blogger Jill said...

I thought the point of an education was to become educated. I'm working on an undergrad, myself, and probably made as much money while I was working and taking a break from school, as I will make once I leave school.

However, I am not a fool. I am not attending University to get a job. I am attending University to learn. And to learn how to learn. I could only hope to be so lucky.

If I wanted to get trained for a job, I would attend a technical college.

1:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God, I'm glad I value my English Degree. It seems the arts are heading to the toilet in our society as more and more people equate success with having more money than their neighbors these days. I find my analytical skills incredibly useful even as a professional horticulturist that restores historical estate gardens. I also find it comforting that I can engage in a conversation with someone else about Milton, Shakespeare, Eliot, Woolf, Beckett, etc. when the opprotunity arrises.

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Anonymous Masters Research Paper said...

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5:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chris
I have a B.A. in English and am a private tutor for high school kids in Lit., History and Writing. I also tutor Spanish grammar. In a wealthy school district parents pay over $50 per hour. I also have time to do pro bono for kids who cannot afford a tutor. One on one with kids is the most rewarding job I have ever done. With my classic liberal arts ed. I can teach anything.
I do not have a spec ed degree, but after 12 years have figured out how to translate material to learning styles, deficits etc. All of this is interesting, tough, and rewarding, not mention re learning old subjects as an adult.

4:49 PM  
Blogger Courtney said...

Hello:

I am a little over half way through an MA program in English Literature, and wonder why people have so many delusions about how this piece of paper is going to get them some mythical well paying job. There are a lot of people in my program that joke about how worthless it is, and they have not even finished the coursework. This concerned me, so I decided that while they joke about how useless it is I am going to my first conference with the goal of getting something published so that I have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into a good PhD program. Just doing the coursework will get you nothing, and I have had plenty of people explain that to me. you have to do a ton of other stuff on your own and in conjunction with faculty to make it, because everyone wants to make it in Literature because it is great. I would also never pay for the whole thing, I got a GA to pay my tuition doing research. You do it because you love it and it is all you really know, not for money. As an undergrad English major I was cool worth my choice because I was there to learn, not to look smart, because do you really think anyone in today's world outside academia care about what you have to say about Matthew Arnold? It won't make you rich and it may ruin your life. I barely have time to shower, have 20$ in my checking account and no longer pluck my eyebrows but shit I am happy.

12:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just completed a masters in English and it's been difficult for me to find adjunct positions. With an undergrad degree, I was able to receive a paid TA position, but now with a grad degree, it's difficult to find something better. Perhaps it's because I am applying right before the next semester begins, perhaps because I need to keep searching or perhaps because the economy is down which is why it is difficult to find a better job (i.e. an adjunct position). But I really feel that you should pursue English if this is what you really want and to keep applying if you have the means to. And also keep hope alive. Also, make your resume look better by publishing, tutoring and going to conferences. In between the time you are looking for a job, you should make your resume look as best as it can. Best of luck M.A. in English grads! :)

9:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm halfway through my MA in English and completely happy with my choice. On the one hand, there's 2 years that I get to spend enriching myself--I have the entire rest of my life to work and career-build. On the other hand, my particular program offers a tuition waver, health insurance, AND a stipend (for glorified the slave-labor of teaching). I would probably have a completely different outlook if this thing sent me 60k into debt, but as it is I'm making ends meet without additional loans.

Perhaps we shouldn't condemn ALL higher education, just higher education that forces students to take out insane loans. If we're only accumulating 10k in debt at low interest rates, it's a much more profitable and enjoyable experience...

Why people take out loans for 40k a year tuition, I'll never know.

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a BA in English and wanting to get into a Masters Program. I looked at the MA programs in English, but honestly I am concered about finding a job. Currently, I am concidering a Masters in Education in Adult Ed. But since I cannot find a job with my BA not even a clerical postion, government job, or secretary. It makes me think getting an MA or MS is worthless. I have been told getting an NTL in teaching, the public school system will make me grubble for a job and that a masters will put me over qualified. What do you people suggest?

The love of literature isn't enough for me and wont pay the bills. My husband works in a factory and pays all the bills. I feel like an asshole! Plus, specialized feminist studies and everything I loathed about women
guess what...I AM...a stay at home mom...out of work. This sucks!!! And whats worse is I dont know what to do, should I get a masters in Adult Ed? Or go into Higher Education? What do you people think?

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8:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't sell yourselves short if you've pursued a degee in English or the Arts. Literature, Music, Movies...the human condition is the only thing that i've ever been truly PASSIONATE about, but for practicality, and because i had no parental support going through undergrad - i went Business Administration (General Business).

I graduated, anticipating being put on the fast track to upper management and 6 figures due to my wit, charm, and intellect, and ended up selling copy machines for 4 years, and slaving in an office as a marketing assistant to a company that is tantamount to a legal grift (pharmaceutical).

My point is that even if business majors are "making double the salary" (they're not!) of an English major out of school, roughly 95% will be unfulfilled in their work. If you think business majors and those who work in business have it good, try cold calling business in your area for 4 hours a day trying to sell them something they don't need. Or hit up all of your relatives/acquaintances to sell them insurance. That's what people with business degrees do!

There is NO comparison between someone making $55k doing a soul crushing job in sales/marketing (need an MBA for that level of income, imo) and someone making $40k doing something more fulfilling, or even something that 'has its moments'.

12:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems to me the more I learn the less I know.

11:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just recently earned my B.A. in Philosophy with hopes of earning a PhD in Philosophy, Theology, or English. I haven't decided yet, it's a tough decision, especially when money and debt is involved. But, I must say that Courtney's response about being broke, showerless, and happy has inspired me. And, I am determined to not fall into the classical mold of an unhappy housewife, but instead I am going to be a successful, independent, and happy human being. Because the way I see it, as long as I am flourishing, I will be happy!

1:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With all due respect to all the knowledgeable people here, I wonder where in the free (capitalist) world you would think that any degree in English or the Arts would automatically get you to a place where you would make enough to pay a 50K debt, buy a house, pay the bills, and support a family? I got an ESL undergrad degree from Colombia (SA), and even I know that. My mom was pushing for Medicine or smth in Business back in my high-school graduation ceremony, especially since I was preagnant. Additionally, there is the thing about probabilities. Yes, it is a lot less likely to get more money in English than in Business. However, I opted for Language Teaching because there is the thing about talents, interests, and the contribution you want to make to society that makes us go in a certain direction. In other words, you are trapped between your calling and capabilities.

I have had great experience at work and love what I do, but I know that to be able to get money you need to sell something that people would want to actually give money for. Therefore, I always try to go where I get payed for what I do, and those places are the ones that offer consumers what they want to buy. You guys may want to try to find a job at an international school. You would be highly appreciated, and you will make more money than what you may be making in the US at the moment. My American coworkers have been to places all over the world, working for rich kids whose families pay a lot for private international education. Those teachers are living the experience of another culture, teaching what they went to school for, paying for their university loans just fine, and they don't even need an additional certification to be hired. The website tieonline.com is the place to look for those opportunities.

As to babysitting and other skills and expectations in the work market, every student at any education level should know that you do not learn everything you need to be able to perform well at the market place. When you work, you gain experience and other skills necessary to be actually articulated to society. Studying is only a small step. When you have a naive individualistic view of your "dream", you hit a wall once you try to find a place in the productive world that helps you eat, pay the bills, and live safely. I think everybody should know something that makes them qualified to perform at a basic work, then get their undergrad if necessary, work some more to know what kind of adult they want to be, and assess wheather you need to do some more studying, develop other skills like communication, team work, proposal writing, conforming to company expectations and still make a little difference, or simply take a different route.

Acquiring lifeskills is what is lacking in the mindset of teenagers and young adults poorly misguided by the school system, their parents, and the movie industry who constantly tell them that if you work on pursuing your dream, you shall get exactly what you want. Young people are usually misguided to think that academics is the only way to go. You forget that MOVIES WANT TO SELL THEIR PRODUCTS AND UNIVERSITIES WANT TO SELL THEIR SERVICES, and also forget that, for as long as humanity has been on this Earth, surviving needs come first for most, before intellectual ones, and there will always be competition for the spot that pays better. It's capatalism.

That being said, in my work experience of 15 years, and with my kids being 17 and 15 years old now, I'm thinking about getting an MA in Psychollogy. With work experience I have been able to develop other skills, and have managed to become an academic consultant who gets payed better than a teacher. I DO NEED an additional diploma.

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4:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go to school for the education, not the job....otherwise you will never be happy. I think that is why non traditionalist seem to do well in most schools....they know they can always go back to what they were doing before. I went back to school to learn, and if I am a carpenter with a PhD, so be it.

3:48 PM  
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4:03 PM  
Blogger Josh Boldt said...

I generally like Ehrenreich's stuff, including this piece. I happen to hold one of those ubiquitous and superfluous(?) master's degrees in English. I actually wrote a post questioning the degree: Why Did I Get a Master's Degree in English?

10:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those considering a master's degree in English, check out the book Should I Get a Master's Degree in English? at Amazon. Lots of good info. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BTNQASS

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have an MA in English--but it wasn't thesis based, so it only took me 12 months and was completely paid for by my university, and 3/4 of my undergraduate was paid for by my parents. I wouldn't have gone for the MA otherwise.
I started the degree with the goal of becoming a professor--halfway into my second semester, I acknowledged the lack of reality in this and am now in library school training to be a records manager. It's very, very dull and I essentially hate it but to be quite frank I am so tired of being nearly-broke I almost don't care anymore. I plan to work in this field for two or three years after graduation, and then pursue my PhD in English for self-fulfillment part time.

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